tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37512247.post4169136125053646157..comments2023-12-24T11:20:38.708+00:00Comments on The Muniment Room: Tagged for a MemeTtonyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15185875893212146794noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37512247.post-66082820250721712822007-10-03T01:22:00.000+01:002007-10-03T01:22:00.000+01:00Only just realised, Anibale" is the Italian form o...Only just realised, Anibale" is the Italian form of Hannibal, how apt.Fr Ray Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05584140126211527252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37512247.post-29162729706408521892007-10-02T09:33:00.000+01:002007-10-02T09:33:00.000+01:00BTW, I updated mine: I'd left out Shawn Tribe and ...BTW, I updated mine: I'd left out Shawn Tribe and the Abbe Laguerie. Mea Culpa.Anagnostishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03706938507885553293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37512247.post-8477541739223252622007-10-01T21:59:00.000+01:002007-10-01T21:59:00.000+01:00Certainly.The "Metz agreement" was concluded semi-...Certainly.<BR/><BR/>The "Metz agreement" was concluded semi-secretly (it was reported in the secular press at the time nevertheless) in August 1962 between the Secretariat of State and the Kremlin. Representatives of the Moscow Patiarchate (KGB agents, in effect) would be permitted to accept Pope John's invitation to attend the Council as observers, in exchange for which the Pope guaranteed that the Council would refrain from any condemnation of Communism (the outstanding error of the age if ever there was one).<BR/><BR/>Cardinal Leinart (Bishop of Lille) was de facto leader of the "Rhine Group" of Council Fathers, the only group of bishops to arrive at the Council with clear (liberal) objectives and a "game plan". During the first session he seized the microphone in a dramatic (now generally understood to be carefully orchestrated) gesture and denounced the schemata - the preparatory documents carefully drafted in advance under papal oversight. He demanded that these be withdrawn and a completely new set of working papers produced. He was immediately applauded by supporters and subsequently by others cautht up in the anti-curial mood and the general euphoria of the circumstances. The proposal was put to the vote and all the preparatory work - <I>except Sacrosanctum Concilium</I> - was scrapped. New documents were commissioned from the "new theologians" - Rahner, Kung, Schilebeekx, Haring, Congar, etc, etc...<BR/><BR/>The rest, as they say, is history. "God forbid" worried our own Cardinal Heenan, that the periti [these men] should be the ones charged with impementing and interpreting the Council. Of course that's exactly what happened.Anagnostishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03706938507885553293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37512247.post-52099733279789012142007-10-01T20:19:00.000+01:002007-10-01T20:19:00.000+01:00Can you expand on Leinhart and Metz?Can you expand on Leinhart and Metz?Ttonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15185875893212146794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37512247.post-58926031872841386892007-09-30T20:16:00.000+01:002007-09-30T20:16:00.000+01:00...except that the same bunch of people were also ......except that the same bunch of people were also responsible for drafting the schemata. this is especially true of <I>Sacrosanctum Concilium</I> which made it through practically untouched (and was the only one of the original schemata to have survived Leinart's coup d'etat). It was the work of exactly the same bunch of people who, by the mid-fifties, had already done most of the groundwork on the NO.<BR/><BR/>No, I think the clue to the Council is Metz. God is not mocked. One does not invoke the Holy Spirit at the same time as cutting deals with His enemies to pre-determine where He blows and where He doesn't.Anagnostishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03706938507885553293noreply@blogger.com